Chef David Hill & Chef Paul Daniel

Chef David Hill (00:29):

Okay. Welcome to episode two of Chefs and Lambos by Chef David Hill. Another beautiful day here in Naples, Florida at my client's house, enjoying the scenery. And I've got a real close chef friend of mine today. Chef Paul Daniel. I don't know if he's "cheffing" so much these days, but I'll let Paul talk about his... an introduction of what he's doing now. Go ahead, Chef.

Chef Paul Daniel (00:57):

Yeah, right now I'm the director of culinary services at a retirement community here locally. So I stepped out of the kitchen for the most part. Once in a while. You'll see me making omelets on Sunday or testing recipes with the chef, but I think my days of the daily kitchen life are over, which is good.

Chef David Hill (01:15):

And when did you actually start this new job?

Chef Paul Daniel (01:18):

I was the assistant director. I started as the assistant director about eight months ago and I was promoted just recently to the director.

Chef David Hill (01:25):

Congratulations. That's awesome.

Chef Paul Daniel (01:26):

Thank you.

Chef David Hill (01:28):

And like, do you miss the kitchen tasks or you're kind of like, "Oh, this is so much better! I've got AC."

Chef Paul Daniel (01:34):

Yeah. I can cook at home for my family, my wife.

Chef David Hill (01:38):

You get that out of your system, just doing a weekend barbecue.

Chef Paul Daniel (01:42):

My woodfired oven in the backyard. That's enough cooking for me. Like I said, I'll step in once in a while. Expedite, help the chef if he needs it. But for the most part, I think that part of my life is behind me. You know, the daily, the task driven daily kitchen life.

Chef David Hill (01:57):

And what would you say is like the biggest difference like hours put in compared to being a chef? Like how much more of a drastic change is it hours put in?

Chef Paul Daniel (02:10):

Well, being main difference is because it's a retirement community. The, hours are more stable. So it averages about the same as a chef down here in Southwest Florida, the seasons are quite dramatic. You know, I worked, it was working maybe 25, 30 hours a week during the summer and 70 to 80 during the season. Now it's, a steady 50 to 60 hours a week and it's again, 80% of that is inside of an office. Sitting down. So yeah, it's quite a different lifestyle.

Chef David Hill (02:42):

And what, about the culture of being an office guy? Isn't that kind of different communication compared to dealing with a line cook

Chef Paul Daniel (02:50):

Yeah. It's quite different. You have to have a different demeanor for sure. We're having meetings with executives on a weekly or, almost daily basis. So it's a little bit different. I went back into the kitchen a couple days ago and there was some marinade on a strip loin and someone was rubbing it on there and some of it fell off and got on my shoe and the whole kitchen started laughing. They said, "Ah, Paul got dirty!" So I thought that was kind of funny.

Chef David Hill (03:16):

That is funny.

Chef Paul Daniel (03:17):

Yeah. It's been a while.

Chef David Hill (03:20):

All right. Well, I just wanna let you know, we might get a little goofy because me and Paul go way, way back. We're close friends, but let's start way back at the beginning. Paul, when you were a kid and you were thinking of going to be a cook or, you know, being a chef, what made you want to do it? Or what kind of drew you into doing this whole chef life?

Chef Paul Daniel (03:39):

I think like a lot of guys, I just fell into it. I, I got a job washing dishes and cook didn't show up one day and they threw me on the line and it worked out pretty well. I was pretty good at it. So just being successful early on just kind of drove me to keep being successful and keep going further in the profession. Looking back, was it the best idea? Probably not but when you fall into something and you end up being good at it, I think, you know, it feeds on itself and you just want do better and better. And just seeing some of the guys when I was young that were successful chefs, you know, and just kind of tried to model myself after them and, and pursue that.

Chef David Hill (04:16):

But at this point, no regrets about the career path.

Chef Paul Daniel (04:19):

No, it's too late in my life. Right. Too late. It was about a 10 year period there where that was... The regrets were daily. But now at this point I'm pretty happy where I am with my career. I like the position I'm in and some of the things that I get to do every day. I feel like I have a great opportunity where I'm at right now.

Chef David Hill (04:37):

When you were a kid and you were going to go to like, if I'm correct in saying, I believe you did go to culinary school. Where did you go?

Chef Paul Daniel (04:45):

I went to Johnson and Wales in north Miami.

Chef David Hill (04:47):

What year was that?

Chef Paul Daniel (04:49):

Uh, graduated in 96.

Chef David Hill (04:50):

Okay. And was that like a very good experience? You glad you did it, or do you think you didn't need it? What are your thoughts about going to school?

Chef Paul Daniel (04:57):

Being that kind of where I'm at now, my career, it was kind of a plan thing. I went there because I got a full associates and then I went on to get my bachelor's. And then my master's, which is kind of, was in my back pocket for most of my career. Knowing that at a certain age, it would be difficult to stand on my feet for 60 hours a week and endure the kitchen life. So I kind of planned that early on. And then I was able to parlay that into a different path to finish out my career. So in that respect, it was a good thing. As far as the culinary knowledge, yes and no. People can get out of it, what they put into it. If you pay attention, you can get things from culinary school that you're not going to learn in a kitchen, but on the other side of it, you'll never learn how to be a line cook in a world class, kitchen. And in culinary school, that's not going to happen.

Chef David Hill (05:43):

Right. You've got to.... kind of "hard knocks" get in there and get dirty. But when you were a student... I don't know about you, but my perception of what my future was going to be totally changed once I hit the market and I was in it. What were your thoughts back when you were a student? Like, "Hey, I want to own a restaurant. I'm going to be a head chef of a big time place." What were your thoughts when you were a student back then?

Chef Paul Daniel (06:08):

Yeah, I had cooked before I went to culinary school and I was cooking after in different places. But going into it, yes, you think, "Oh, I'm going to get a culinary degree and I'm going to be a chef." Well, that's not the case. It takes about 15 years of hard work and just paying attention and learning from other chefs right before you can really start to understand cuisine and start to understand your own palette and how to develop food and flavors. That just takes a long time. You know, unless you've been exposed to that as a child, culinary school, isn't going to do that for you.

Chef David Hill (06:38):

Yeah. But thinking back, going through school, did you feel those are good memories or not good memories?

Chef Paul Daniel (06:44):

Yeah. They were good memories. I don't think it.... Certainly didn't take away from the totality of what I've learned in my career. It's added to it. It's not going to, like I said, it's not going to replace learning how to cook. Learning, the ins and outs of a busy line and a busy night and organizing your movements and being fast and learning your knife skills. It's not going to do that for you. Yeah. You have to do that in a high end restaurant with a good chef.

Chef David Hill (07:12):

Well, I will say as far as being well rounded in the kitchen and cooking, I mean, Paul, I would put in my spot any day. I mean, the guy he's great. He hits the ground running. He could do anything I ask him, he could do anything as good as me. But what he's way better at, than me is being like a computer chef. I mean, he could build charts like nobody's business. Spreadsheets, food cost, all that. And, I consider Paul someone I would go to, if I was confused about... "Hey, I've got six prime ribs. How many hours, how many minutes, what would you set it at to hold?" This guy? He's really good at everything. So going back to, your education, why don't you tell the people about how you furthered your education after Johnson and Wales? Like, I know you got your master's certified executive chef. Why don't you go into that? Why you went further and, just kind of the experience of going through that.

Chef Paul Daniel (08:10):

Yeah. And after culinary school, I bounced around a little bit, spent some time in New York, cooking and spent a little more time in Miami working for some high end chefs. But I ended up landing in a country club as a sous chef here in Naples. And I was there for about five years and I just realized there were things I was lacking. I was thinking about maybe going to Europe and cooking and learning more about cuisine or going back to school. And I eventually chose school because of some of the reasons we talking about. I just felt like over the course of a 20 or 30 year career, that's going to put me into a situation where I could step out of the kitchen if need be at some point. But I realized where I was... I wasn't going to get there.

Chef Paul Daniel (08:51):

So I decided to go back to school and you learn the more the business of food service. My undergrad degrees in, hospitality management with a restaurant management focus. So that really kind of gave me a little bit more insight into the business of it, the variable expenses of what you would see in a service business, which a lot of chefs just don't have and they need help with. So I think when you look at it from that standpoint, it gives you a little bit of an edge and that's kind of where I've been able to take my career, like, as you alluded to previously,

Chef David Hill (09:22):

But I recall we've had previous conversations where maybe sometimes you'd say, "Maybe I'm a little overqualified, or maybe I did a little too much schooling where I'm kind of pricing myself out of the market." Talk about that a little bit.

Chef Paul Daniel (09:37):

Absolutely. I spent a lot of years in kitchens where it's just, it was difficult relating to even some of my bosses, just because of some of the things that I had learned, you know? And just my perspective. I'm not saying I knew more or less than anyone, but just the experiences that I had were kind of unique with working in some really fine restaurants and also just pursuing my education so deeply. So I had a, kind of a unique combination of the two, I think, and it was hard for me to find my place,, where I could exercise all those skills and the things that I've learned along the way. I think where I'm at now, I finally found that. So it took 25 years to get there.

Chef David Hill (10:11):

But, what you just said about maybe them not letting you spread your wings per se, is that because you feel as if they were worried about your gunning for their job?

Chef Paul Daniel (10:22):

I don't know. I just sometimes think the communication...there was a barrier, just some of the ways that I wanted to approach how I ran the kitchen, how I organized it, how I engineered the production of food. I think it was a little bit too intricate for some people. And I just never really felt like I was in a position where I had the time to develop what I could fully. And, that kind of led to me taking jobs for two or three years, and then trying to find what I wanted somewhere else. And for quite a few years... you know, with the pandemic, I turned a lot of jobs down for exactly the same reason. I just didn't want to stay the same or go backwards anymore. So I just refused to do it.

Chef Paul Daniel (10:59):

So just being patient and holding out for something that I wanted, it paid off. Where I'm at now, I get to do everything that I want in terms of using all my knowledge and skills and trying to engineer a large operation and producing food and affecting people's lives for the better in a community. So I'm really happy to be able to do that. And I don't think that I would be able to do it if I hadn't spent so much time pursuing my education.

Chef David Hill (11:27):

Right. Well, I remember...I followed your career obviously, because we're friends, but I would say your transition went from restaurants to country clubs. And then you took this idea: "Let's open a catering business." So let's dive into that a little bit. Tell me about why you decided to do it and what your thoughts about it and just how it went and just kind of your thoughts on it.

Chef Paul Daniel (11:52):

Well, I think the original idea came from...My wife and I had twins. I think it was 2011. Well, I know it was, I know my kid's birthday. And I just had to take a look at my life and understand that I didn't really want to put in those occasional 80 to 90 hour weeks and averaging 65-75 hours over the course of the year. My wife did some traveling and I just didn't feel like I was going be able to hold down an executive chef job. So I took a little time off and I started to think about where to go from here.

Chef David Hill (12:28):

Well, you had this crazy idea. You're going to make your own hours and this is gonna be easy.

Chef Paul Daniel (12:33):

It was crazy. Yeah. So I built out a small kitchen and I decided to start a catering business.

Chef David Hill (12:40):

And that was in Bonita Springs, right? The catering kitchen.

Chef Paul Daniel (12:44):

Yeah. So needless to say, it's a lot of work. As you become more successful, your demands on your time are more and more. When I wasn't making any money, I wasn't working as much, but when I started to make some money, it was just constant. It was more work than I had been doing in the clubs. And I took a look around me and I saw the other caterers that were successful and they were doing just as much, if not more work than I had ever dreamed of doing. And it just didn't make sense for me to continue to do it. So I sold the business and I took a job in a senior living community as an executive sous chef. To kind of see if that was something that would give me a little bit of a better lifestyle,

Chef David Hill (13:25):

But now today, do you ever look back and say, "Maybe I could have given it another year. Maybe I could have gone like another two years, three years." And then boom, the pandemic hits. And your catering skyrockets.

Chef Paul Daniel (13:42):

Yeah. You know what I...

Chef David Hill (13:43):

Did you think of that at all?

Chef Paul Daniel (13:45):

Well, of course, I see that some of the guys that I was helping out or they were helping me out four or five years ago have become tremendously successful yourself included. Although you were successful before the pandemic. But I think that that market opened up for you. A lot.

Chef David Hill (14:00):

Yes, it opened a lot.

Chef Paul Daniel (14:01):

Which was interesting. And you know, I had lost my job right before the pandemic started and I had talked to my wife again about doing some private chef stuff or catering. I just didn't want to step back into it. It opened up a lot of opportunities for people. It closed a lot of doors also.

Chef David Hill (14:17):

But you feel like when you look back on it, all the memories are bad.

Chef Paul Daniel (14:21):

Pretty much.

Chef David Hill (14:22):

Okay.

Chef Paul Daniel (14:23):

It's just, I don't like catering. I was taking my kitchen out onto the beach.

Chef David Hill (14:29):

I remember I was on a few of those.

Chef Paul Daniel (14:30):

You're always on a tight schedule. You're running out the door. You hopefully have everything you need. It's too much stress, too much work. There is a chance to be successful, but I don't, I just go for the long term in my life. It just wasn't something I was interested in continuing.There could have been, and would've probably been some form of success, but I don't see the price paid to be worth it for most of the people I know. I mean, in your case, you found kind of a niche.

Chef David Hill (14:58):

Yeah. It's smaller, not trying to be huge, like big numbers and small dinner parties. Like less than 20. I mean, occasionally I might do 35-40, but they got pretty much beg me.

Chef Paul Daniel (15:11):

And that wasn't my business model and you've become very successful. You've built a really great clientele and I'm certainly proud of you for doing that. I didn't take that path. And I didn't want to run and change my business model at that point, It just wasn't for me,

Chef David Hill (15:26):

But you know, I've got to share this experience I had with Paul. I mean, this is something that I'll never, ever forget. And it's a very fond memory. I remember Paul called me one day and he is like, "Hey, we gotta do box lunches for this church." And I'm like, "Look, I'll help out and anyway, it's for a church." I don't really care about the money. I knew we weren't going to make a lot of money or whatever, but the kicker was, I think it was around 600 or 500 box launches. And me and Paul were just like, it was just me and him. I think we called like a retired bus driver to like come over and help us one time. But I mean, it was primarily just me and him. And I don't know if you've done sandwiches, but you can't really do them too far in advance.

Chef David Hill (16:10):

So we were in the middle of doing these lunches. I just remember we were so tired and I'm like, "Paul, you know this stuff so well. Just figure out how many slices of bread we need." And he messed up the count of bread and we had to go to the store at like three in the morning or something and buy tons of bread. And I'm like, "Paul, I know that we're on a mission from God, but let's just cancel this. Let's just buy them pizza and just say, forget it. We're not doing this job anymore. We're done." And I think we had a period where we're like, "Hey, we can go home for one hour. Should we take it? Should we go home and sleep? Maybe one hour." I'm like, dude, I'm going to die. Let's go to sleep. I'm going home.

Chef David Hill (16:52):

Let's be back in an hour. And we called each other, "Are you up? Are you up? Are you coming? Are you coming?" We're like, "Yeah, we're going back." But we were like zombies for two days coming off that job. And I remember we told the lady, "We love you guys. We wanted to help, but don't call us next year. We do not want this job never again." And that was my memory of Paul. On my way driving here. I was like, oh my God. That was so funny. But a nightmare at the same time.

Chef Paul Daniel (17:21):

Yeah exactly. And that's one of the things you just get involved in and it just...

Chef David Hill (17:25):

You just want to help people. Sometimes the money doesn't matter. Sometimes you just want to help, but it's not worth it.

Chef Paul Daniel (17:30):

It just takes you over.

Chef David Hill (17:33):

What church was that? Do you remember? I don't remember. It was the one, it was on Bonita beach road right across from skillets. And that church jams. I mean maybe like 700-800 people a session. And I mean, we did like 600 box launches and we were just so tired. I mean, I don't know how we did it, but that was, that was a funny memory. I love to talk about with some of my close friends. But anyway. Okay. So let's get into your other business. After you went back to the clubs after your catering. Which club was at Naples?

Chef Paul Daniel (18:05):

The country club in Naples was the one that after I went to Maury's park is...

Chef David Hill (18:09):

And I think you had a good experience. You liked the place.

Chef Paul Daniel (18:12):

Yeah. That was just a lot of work. And it was what it was, you know I wasn't going to grow there. I was growing as a chef. I was growing with my food.

Chef David Hill (18:21):

But you got kind of bored. Is that what it was?

Chef Paul Daniel (18:24):

I wasn't bored with the food. I was just looking at, where am I going to go from here? It wasn't anywhere. You know, a little bit more money every year. And just incrementally becoming a little bit of a better chef. It's not enough for me. It never has been. So it just was time for me to look for something else.

Chef David Hill (18:41):

Well, I remember after that, I believe you laid low for a while and you said, "Hey, I'm just going to stay home, take care of the kids and whatnot." But then he called me and he had this idea. But what was funny is he just did the thing. He didn't tell me about it. He's just like, "Hey, this is what I'm doing. It's a finished product, check it out." And he showed me this Instagram page and he was building these brick ovens for pizza making. Basically you could do anything. It cooks salmon. It was like a wood fire oven. Talk to me about that. Where you got that idea and where it came from. Because I remember I was like super impressed. I was like, "Dude, you could totally sell this, find a builder, get in with them. And you could maybe make a lot of money with this career."

Chef Paul Daniel (19:24):

Yeah. I think my style of cuisine kind of went that way. I love to cook outdoors. I like designing, especially at the last club I was at, we designed some outdoor cooking equipment and open fire, things like that. I just like that type of cooking. I like the flavors. I think it's natural. I think humans evolve to crave stuff that's cooked over fire.

Chef David Hill (19:46):

More natural.

Chef Paul Daniel (19:47):

Yeah. And my trips to Europe, especially Italy and looking at, down in Naples, looking at some of the pizza ovens that they had there. And in Tuscany, some of the different ovens that they were cooking in with open fire, just kind of inspired me. The flavors that I've tasted there are just amazing. So, we were just kind of laying low during the early stages of the pandemic. So I decided to build one in my front yard.

Chef David Hill (20:09):

But, how did you learn it? Did you just watch somebody on YouTube or something?

Chef Paul Daniel (20:13):

I watched some YouTube videos. I'm the type person that just thinks about things or just keeps thinking about it and just going over it in my head over and over again and how to perfect it. And I had a plan and then I built one and sold it. Built another one. I built about 12 of them. I just kept selling them. So, yeah. It's evolved into something that I kind of after five or six of them... Just experimenting with different sizes and different ways to heat them... I've kind of got it to where I'm very comfortable with what I'm doing. And my next project is just to build one for myself. I have a small one in my backyard. But, I actually have one on a trailer right now that is on pause. I was going to make a food truck, but I'm busy working on my other project right now, so that's...

Chef David Hill (20:58):

But is that kind of on the side?

Chef Paul Daniel (21:00):

That's on hold. I still have a shop I'm going to probably get rid of it at the end of June. I've just got to finish up one - an oven that I promised somebody. And I just put it on hold.

Chef David Hill (21:09):

You can always go back to it.

Chef Paul Daniel (21:11):

Yeah. It's just, you know, with the pandemic, I think what happened is a lot of people were buying them and a lot of companies flooded the market with stuff from overseas and cheaper ovens. And just to try to turn yourself into a craftsman and being that market, I think is kind of challenging. It never necessarily was something I was planning on doing as a career, but it kept me busy and kept me doing something that I loved for about a year and a half.

Chef David Hill (21:34):

So that was your whole thing during the pandemic was you didn't really have a job. It was just like a side project thing.

Chef Paul Daniel (21:40):

Yeah. I built a couple on trailers and leased them out and sold a few. Shipped them across the country, mostly custom stuff. But just for me to want to do that as a career, I don't think I have quite enough passion to do that every day. It's hard work. You're cutting bricks and, laying bricks.

Chef David Hill (21:58):

But what about hiring someone that you could train to keep kicking them out? You just kind of build a brand and just try to go with it.

Chef Paul Daniel (22:05):

Yeah. I had those thoughts. I mean, we would've had to invest some more money into the business and it just... again, being that with some of the connections I've had in the industry and just, having job offers finally, the one that I really wanted came along. So I'd never put that to rest in terms of what I wanted to accomplish in my career. And I was doing that as I was just kind of seeing what would come up next for me. So when I found something that I really have had passion about and thought that would be a project that I could work on for five to 10 years, that's kind of what I took. And that's where I'm at now, the ovens, it's a passion. It's something that I'll do occasionally. You know, I just love it.

Chef Paul Daniel (22:43):

I love what we're able to cook out of those things. The heat and the stone and, you know, with pizza, you've got your natural product - the bread - just very basic elements of cuisine that I love to work with. I like working with the fires and managing the temperatures and things like that. It's just a very interactive way to cook. And it's also not just for me, but for the people that are eating, but as far as for career and supporting my family and keeping me focused and interested... And I also like to work with a team of people, even if I had a couple builders. I mean, I enjoy being part of a team that accomplishes things rather than working by myself or as part of a small group. So that's kind of why I'm not doing that right now professionally.

Chef David Hill (23:29):

Yeah. But I remember in the past, we've also talked about the idea of maybe one day opening a restaurant. Is that something that's still in your head or do you think it's just ...no way, never doing it?

Chef Paul Daniel (23:40):

Well, you know, we'll see where the circumstances go. It's certainly possible. I thought about it a lot. And again, I thought about, especially since I've been building some of these outdoor cooking - refractory break - whatever you want to call it, pizza ovens. To theme a restaurant around something like that, I think would be something I'd be interested in at some point. But I'm pretty busy. I'll be busy for the next two or three years with what I'm working on now, easily.

Chef David Hill (24:05):

The only reason I'm bringing that up is because there are a lot of empty spaces right now. I don't know if you've noticed there's a lot of opportunity to pick up a good location.

Chef Paul Daniel (24:14):

Well, I had thought about it seriously when the pandemic hit, because I knew that there would be some turnover in space. But we'll see where the economy goes over the next couple years. I'm not ruling it out. We'll see where my current role takes me.

Chef David Hill (24:29):

So any future goals that you have in mind or just kind of just live in the moment and do this job?

Chef Paul Daniel (24:34):

I mean, with what I'm doing now we're doing an $80 million renovation and expansion. We're kind of reinventing and reimagining all the processes, not only for our property, but in senior living as a whole. I think we're going to be doing some things that people haven't seen before or that are somewhat revolutionary in the industry. And that's kind of what I'm focused on right now. We're investing a lot in capital and equipment in ideas and processes. So that's just something, like I said, it's going to keep me busy. It's something I've always wanted to do. It allows me to utilize all my skills and everything I've learned. Which is what I've always wanted. It keeps me engaged. And I just I'm that type of person that really likes to be challenged on a daily basis. And that's what's happening to me right now. With the ovens... Yes, somewhat of a challenge, but it's more physical. It's more one dimensional. With this, I get challenged with staff, with equipment, with processes, with cuisine, with service with residents every day. And I think I like that. I like that challenge.

Chef David Hill (25:41):

Yeah. I kind of felt like your ovens were great and it was going to work out, but I do realize it's like, you have to have an in for marketing. How do you market? I think you said eBay. Where else could you actually get free advertising? And kind of put it out? How does that work?

Chef Paul Daniel (25:58):

I was on Etsy and those types of sites. And people were buying stuff. But it's a product... I don't know. That's just not what I am. I'm not really one to just want to design a product and sell it. I don't know. It just doesn't really engage me fully. I really do enjoy working with people, cooking for people, or at least helping the chef cook for people. And I enjoy the service aspect of it. And I enjoy having a vision of kind of what we want to achieve over a period of two or three years as a team, and then helping us get there. And I didn't have that with the ovens. And that was just something, like I said, as I was looking for the right position, that was something that that really just kept me busy.

Chef David Hill (26:43):

And if someone sent you a private message, "Hey, I want you to build me one." Could you find the time and do it?

Chef Paul Daniel (26:49):

No, I've turned several people down.

Chef David Hill (26:52):

Really. Oh, okay. So there's just no time at all.

Chef Paul Daniel (26:54):

Yeah, I'm out. I have one, I have to build for a guy. I've got the stuff ready to go and I'm going to knock it out, send it off to Texas. But that's it, I'm wrapping it up, putting my saw in storage and I'm going to pull it out for myself when I build a new one in my backyard. But other than that, that's on hold.

Chef David Hill (27:11):

What about like, if you don't mind me asking, what is the price point? Would you say like someone wants a small one and a big one? Tell me the kind of...

Chef Paul Daniel (27:19):

Well, I mean, everything's gone crazy price wise. I was selling them for three or four grand a couple years ago for like a 32 inch, 28-32 inch. But that's something I should really probably be charging 6,000 or 7,000 for. The bigger ones, I have a 42 inch, one on a trailer right now. That's really a $20,000 oven. So there's just not a big market for it. And there are people that are in that market already, especially with the castable refractories. Mine are all handmade, hand laid brick. There's only a couple guys doing that. I built one here in Florida, on site. So, I cut the bricks in my shop and then assembled it on the property. So those are really nice. And that's something that not a lot of people can do. But again, it's difficult to get the money for that. And you have to market to the right types of people. It's more of a custom masonry job and it wasn't really something I wanted to do. Those are the ones that I actually like to do. I like the results on those a lot better, but for me to basically be a brick layer at this point in my life wasn't really something I wanted to do.

Chef David Hill (28:25):

But this individual that you're still building one for, did he lock into the prices before pandemic? Or did you have to inflate it a little bit? Like how'd you handle that? Because I know cost.

Chef Paul Daniel (28:36):

Yeah. I think we kind of talked about the price and we, I sent him a contract a couple months ago and he put a deposit down. So we had been talking... He's building a house and that's been delayed several times, so...

Chef David Hill (28:48):

Oh, so he's patient.

Chef Paul Daniel (28:50):

Yeah. They're still building it. He doesn't need it yet. I've basically been waiting on him for about a year. So I just had a relationship with him that I developed and I was going to honor that and do that custom oven. So I wanted to make sure he got his oven.

Chef David Hill (29:07):

Okay. Well, let me ask you this as a follow up here. If you weren't in the career right now being this food and beverage director or chef life, what else would you have rather done? Or is there a... you know what I mean? Is there something that messes with you that pulls you? God, I wish I could be this or I could do that.

Chef Paul Daniel (29:27):

You know, I don't know. I just, I'm a creative person. I would've loved to be a writer, but anything in any creative field... That's just really difficult to succeed in because there are so many.

Chef David Hill (29:41):

Like a writer - as in books or movies?

Chef Paul Daniel (29:43):

Books maybe. I love to travel, just being a creative person and that's always difficult. Just like being a chef is difficult. Any type of creative endeavor is very difficult and there's so many talented and creative people out there that finding success is very rare. So that being said, if I thought about it, I probably would've done something in like, IT. Just so I could have a good income and a good career and take care of a family. But, I think overall just having that, just having the career I have and being able to have that creative outlet for most of my life has been pretty unique. And I don't really have any true regrets. I know that even in the clubs, when I was working sometimes 80 hours a week for six months straight, the best thing about it was I could go in in the morning and do whatever I wanted creatively.

Chef David Hill (30:32):

Yeah.

Chef Paul Daniel (30:32):

I could write whatever kind of menu I wanted, order whatever I wanted to any type of ingredient. Play with any type of flavor, put it on a menu and have other people replicate that for me. And, usually I was very successful at it. So that for me, I think is probably what I've always wanted anyway. Even though it was always difficult and sometimes you had to make sacrifices for it. But I think I had that and I think it I'm glad I had it, but I don't think that I need that going forward anymore as much.

Chef David Hill (31:00):

Well, look, I mean, we've been friends a long time and it's kind of weird for me to see you into a manager/ corporate type of food/ beverage job. It's very strange for me. But to me you'll always be a chef. Because, I mean, you're my go-to. If I ever have a mathematical fraction where he is got to breakdown those recipes for me, he's my guy. But Paul, thanks for being a guest on today's show. I appreciate you.

Chef Paul Daniel (31:29):

You're welcome. Alright. Thanks for having me.

Chef David Hill (31:30):

Alright. You have a good one.

Chef Paul Daniel (31:31):

Alright.