Chef David Hill & Chef Paw Mikkelsen

David Hill:

Welcome everyone. This is podcast one of chef and Lambos by chef David Hill. And I am chef David Hill. I'm a private chef, primarily working in Naples, Florida, but with my business, I cover a large area. I go as far south as Miami, as far north as Tampa. And right now there's been a big push for chefs out in Sarasota, long boat, key siesta key. There's been a lot of work out there for me, and I've been very lucky and grateful to have such work. And right now we're doing our first podcast here from Naples, Florida area. And we have a beautiful scenery here and I have a wonderful first guest, Paw Mikkelsen. How are you chef?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Pretty good, Dave, thank you so much for having me.

David Hill:

No problem. If you wouldn't mind, go ahead and tell all the people about your work and where you're from.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Okay, well, I'm a pastry chef in Naples. I have, a pretty decent size pastry shop. We do a lot of wholesale, to country clubs, restaurants, plus we have a retail shop and do private customers from there too. We have been in business for about 21 years now. Started the business in 2000, by myself. And, now we have a staff of like 35 people.

David Hill:

Wow, I had no idea there was that many.

Paw Mikkelsen:

t's been pretty good.

David Hill:

I thought. Maybe 10 people

Paw Mikkelsen:

Oh no, we are like 35.

David Hill:

Okay. Well, I just wanna say like, you know, even though we don't talk much or, you know, get together at all, I have a lot of respect for you and I feel like with what you do there, it's a very unique thing. I've been in your building many times. We do business together all the time. And I gotta ask with what I've seen. It seems as if you grab your staff from all different areas, I'm just gonna take a wild guess. I'm guessing maybe I moly. It might be label bell. It might be as far as Arcadia, is that by design where maybe when you first started your career, you might have hired kids right out of culinary school. And it changed to this because I, I got the feeling like maybe you don't have a lot of CIA grads back there.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I guess it all started years ago when I first started the business. I mean, once you first started business, there's not a whole lot of capital, So my first employee was actually a dishwasher.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And when she was not busy with dishes, she would help me with prep work, mini pastries, make mixes and that type of thing. And as she just became better at doing that, I replaced her as a dishwasher and kept her as a pastry person. Okay. And that's pretty much how I grew my staff in a lot of cases that a lot of the staff that I had in the earlier days, they were my dishwashers. And then once we got a little bit more capital going, that was when I hired pastry chefs to come and help me. And push me along to a different level, get more business and things like that right now.

David Hill:

Is there anybody there that's from Johnson, Wales, CIA. Is there any staff from, higher end college?

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, not anymore.

David Hill:

But is that because you kinda of learned some things along the way, like maybe it's better to take someone who's raw and train them into what you want them to be , correct?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I think in my, in my case and for what we do, I mean, I think I can easily train the staff, and a lot of the people that I train, they get very proud of what they do. And they take ownership in

David Hill:

More pride in their work

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. In what they do. And I think once a person's been with me for a few years, then, it's like an apprenticeship almost. They become better and better, and they pretty much learn everything because we make everything from scratch. So, they can go through, making bread to making croissants. They can learn how to make fondant. They can do cakes,, decorate cakes, wedding cakes, sculptor, cakes, stuff like that. So they can pretty much do whatever they want. With the size of pastry shop that we have, I, over the years, you know, of course I do want to have professional people work for me, but I think I feel that there's not that many in our industry anymore. That has the interest of doing what we do.

David Hill:

Okay. I didn't know that

Paw Mikkelsen:

I think. And then I think, most of the people that come from Johnson, Wales, CIA, that type of thing. I mean, they want to go and become pastry chefs right away.

David Hill:

So maybe they don't have the patience.

Paw Mikkelsen:

They don't have the patience. They want to be independent and work for a club and be their own boss. So, and working for me, they're not their own boss.

David Hill:

So do, are you saying, like, if you were gonna like, give someone advice about, "Hey, I wanna open a pastry shop." Like if they want to start from scratch, would you kind of discourage that idea of hiring someone who's like very, very experienced where it's maybe better to train?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, I mean, I think in my case it was more than money. I mean, as I said, the capital wasn't there, I needed to pay the bank off and make sure I had money for new equipment and things like that. So we had to do a lot of the work ourself and start with lower cost employees.

David Hill:

I kind of agree with that with the whole idea. Sometimes when you deal with people that are pretty well trained and sometimes they come from these colleges, they're kind of like trained to do things one way and they're not open to change sometimes. And sometimes you're battling their personalities in that way where, you know, I kind of agree with you sometimes it's better to just take someone and train them correct the way you want them to be.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I've had most luck with that. And I have employees that have been with me for 18 years, 14 years, 10 years, 12 years. Yeah. So a lot of my employees have been with me for a long time.

David Hill:

Wow. I mean, that's, that's pretty impressive. So let's start like, way, way back, like childhood. What made you want to be a chef or what was calling you to maybe jump into this? Tell me about that a little bit.

Paw Mikkelsen:

My childhood, I grew up in a pastry shop. My parents had a pastry shop.

David Hill:

Uh, so there it is

Paw Mikkelsen:

Back home in Denmark. And as a child, I mean, it wasn't for me.

David Hill:

What age did you... what age are we talking?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, we're talking probably like 10, 11 years old. But when I turned 12, that was when my parents taught me that I had to start working and I started cleaning the pastry shop.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Every day after school. And, that just became my daily chore. We had a pastry shop that was on a main street so the shop was downstairs and then we lived upstairs in an apartment, a part of the building. So everything took place right there. And when I got home from school, I cleaned the pastry shop and did my homework, and then I went to do my sports and stuff like that.

David Hill:

But I think you were about to say you didn't want to be a pastry chef.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I never had any thoughts about being a pastry chef or baker, anything like that. But then during my early years, whenever there was summer vacations and stuff like that, then we, my dad asked if we could come down and help him into summertime at nighttime baking and that stuff. And that was pretty fun. And I got little hooked on working and making the money. Also the money, as a young kid, it was good to have a little bit of spending money. But then when I kind of got a little older, a teenage kid, there was other things I wanted to do that my parents didn't agree with.

David Hill:

So they kind of forced you into it a little bit.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. They kind of forced me into it. So, the thing that I didn't want to do was, I wanted to move to a different island and go to a different school and my parents didn't want that, but they said if I wanted to move away, they would get me a job. And help me find an apartment and all of that stuff. So at the age of 15, I moved away from home, started my apprenticeship in a different town as a baker slash pastry chef.

David Hill:

Okay. Was that like, kind of considered like a big school, like a famous school or not really?

Paw Mikkelsen:

It was a private apprenticeship. So you sign a contract with another big shop, a bakery. And that contract consists of you having to work for him for three years as an apprentice. And then in that apprenticeship, once you go through the first year, then he will have to send you to technical school. So my first year of technical school was five weeks where you go up and they'll give you some education into technical stuff - by the books. And then you have some hands-on training. Then after the five weeks, you do a test where it will tell them that you are far enough along that you can continue your apprenticeship. So then you go back to your workplace and work for like a year more. Then a year after, you are into your second year.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And then you go to school for 10 weeks. And after like a year and a half at your apprenticeship, then you've pretty much been around all the different things and you'll learn most of it. So you should know pretty much everything that's going on in a big pastry shop. But after 10 weeks, you'll do another test and they'll let you know whether you can continue. If you don't, if you're not far along, then you can either do your second year or your first year from scratch again. But I think most people who don't pass the first year find something else to do.

David Hill:

But being locked into that three year period. Did you like being in there with them?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. I, loved every minute of it.

David Hill:

Okay. So it wasn't like, God did I make the wrong choice?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I really fell in love with the pastry industry and all of that stuff. It was not that I made the wrong choice by any means. I've pretty much always enjoyed what I'm doing. It's never been a chore or a job for me. It's always been a hobby.

David Hill:

Okay, good.

Paw Mikkelsen:

It has. And third year, of course, you go up and you do your master brief type of thing and you graduate.

David Hill:

So from there, where did you go after Denmark?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I stayed back home in Denmark, and worked for the shop, that I practiced at for like a year.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Then after a year I got the opportunity to come to America. I got a job with the Ritz Carlton in Boston.

David Hill:

Nice.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So with them, I got what was called a J one visa at the time. And that was like an 18 months visa So I came over here and my brother was over here. So I did have family over here and he worked for the Ritz too. So, we were kind of together. And I worked there for one and a half years. And the whole idea of me coming over here and working was for me to come over and see what was going on over here.

David Hill:

But did you enjoy that year?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. Yeah. I did. I had a good time too. I actually fell in love with America then. I mean, I was very impressed with America, but the whole idea was for me to come back with a bunch of new ideas, stuff that people had never seen in Denmark.

David Hill:

And so that's what I was gonna ask. What happened with your parents' place, if you weren't gonna go back and take over that?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, that kind of just fell to the wayside and closed down.

David Hill:

That didn't bother you? Like, you never had the urge...You were just like, I want to be in America.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I want to be in America. Well, I met a girl.

David Hill:

That changes everything, doesn't it?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I met a girl and of course she's now my wife and we have been married for 32 years and we've got 3 beautiful kids and all of that stuff.

David Hill:

So, that kind of made the decision like, okay, we've gotta get something solid here.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, I think when I'm thinking back, I mean, one of the things that has lways been true, my thoughts were if I went back to Denmark, it was like, my history was written

David Hill:

Mm-hmm

Paw Mikkelsen:

I knew that I was going to take over my parents pastry shop and

David Hill:

Yeah, you wanted to do something more.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Everything here in America was something that I created

David Hill:

Over the top kind of,

Paw Mikkelsen:

You know, I, I never knew what tomorrow was going to bring.

David Hill:

Sure. Or anything like, so you're saying you kind of crave that pressure.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I like the excitement of not knowing what's going on. Kind of taking the bull by the horn and, and attacking new opportunities.

David Hill:

Gotcha.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And, you know, in the food industry, there's always opportunities knocking.

David Hill:

Absolutely.

Paw Mikkelsen:

You know, so absolutely. I mean, I was with the Ritz Carlton for a few years. I had to leave because I lost my working papers, and as soon as I got my working papers back, I went back and became the pastry chef for the Ritz Carlton.

David Hill:

Okay.

David Hill:

And for how long did you stay?

Paw Mikkelsen:

There? I was there for a few years. I started a family in Boston. Then my, my second job was at the 4 Seasons hotel in Houston.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So we, we moved to Houston, Texas, and worked for Four Seasons hotel there, which was also a good, wonderful job. And then after a few years in, Houston, I got taken away by a head hunter, that taught me to start a job with a private restaurant group in Houston. And that wasn't really the best move of my life. Um, I kind of like the hotel kitchens, I like the pastry shop where you had the staff and

David Hill:

Large scale,

Paw Mikkelsen:

The larger scale of restaurant. I mean, there was a, there was not a lot of room to do what you want to do.

Paw Mikkelsen:

There wasn't the, the help with the staff that you needed. To do the things that you want to do. You didn't have the same freedom, and creativity and things like that when you were working for more like a private boss, like what I am now. So that, that probably only lasted about a year.

David Hill:

Back then though. Were you ever discouraged by the money or you never cared about the money? You're just like, I'm happy to be doing what I'm doing.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, I always make good money.

David Hill:

So you were always happy with the money

Paw Mikkelsen:

Back then? Yeah. I always made good money. And, that's kind of, you know, another thing that when you ask about my time here in America is I never had, I've never looked for a job. They always found me. There was always people aying, come on, let's talk.

David Hill:

So a lot of offers on the table,

Paw Mikkelsen:

A lot of offers, a lot of opportunities and things like that. And I kind of had a philosophy that I wouldn't stay more than two or three years in one place because I want to learn as much as I could. And then move on.

David Hill:

I could relate to that

Paw Mikkelsen:

To a different place. So, I jumped around quite a bit until I felt that I hit the ceiling. I couldn't go any further. And then you also, you get older, you have a family. So, your chances of moving around gets a little bit strong. You gotta

David Hill:

Gotta think of everybody.

Paw Mikkelsen:

You gotta think of everybody. Right. You have to settle down sometime and, take care of your family. And that was when, in the late 90's that we started thinking about opening our own business and the opportunity came up in Naples that I took over a closed down pastry shop, a German pastry chef had retired.

David Hill:

So you had worked at a different building, not the one you're in

Paw Mikkelsen:

I started out in a different location. Yes.

David Hill:

And then the one you're in now, so

Paw Mikkelsen:

It's only two buildings. The building that I started with, we outgrew that probably within three years.

David Hill:

What area was that in?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Down by commercial glass.

David Hill:

Gotcha. Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

That was down there in that area. It was like a little 1800 square foot kind of, I call it a garage. Cause it looked like a garage.

David Hill:

How, how did that transition go? Like starting up and everything. Did it go real good? Like it just started popping right away.

Paw Mikkelsen:

It is kind of a funny story because I never saw the building. I never saw the equipment that I purchased or anything like that,

David Hill:

So there were growing pains

Paw Mikkelsen:

And the guy that I bought it from, he was an old German pastry shop. A nice guy. I mean, we are still friends today. He still comes and see me and say hi and all of that. I was in Mississippi at the time working at a casino. So we were talking over the phone and I came down one time to see the building. And, the building was empty at the time. So my only concern at that time was that I could continue the lease for a few years. I wouldn't buy a business and not have a lease or anything like that. So, the guy, the pastry shop guy, he talked to the landlord and they assured me that I could have whatever lease I wanted. So then they sent me a list and in those days it was in the early days with the fax machine when they came out, like on a roll

David Hill:

Yeah,

Paw Mikkelsen:

On a piece of paper, So he sent me like a long, wrong roll of paper with how many sheet pans he had, how many tables he had, cooking pots and all of that stuff. And on paper, everything looked good

David Hill:

Till you got there.

Paw Mikkelsen:

That's until I got there

David Hill:

No, I I've heard a lot of stories about buildings being a big problem.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So, I said, okay, we'll make a deal. And, put everything back. It was all in the consignment shop. So he, put everything back and I came down and saw what I had purchased. And I almost had a heart attack

David Hill:

Really,

Paw Mikkelsen:

Because some of the tables were like, fold up tables, kitchen tables,

David Hill:

Just not sufficient. You need like the heavy duty.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I was used to professional things, steel table with marble tops and, and all of that stuff. And cooking pots were the aluminum ones from Walmart, you know?

David Hill:

So did you get into the credit card and just start buying a bunch of stuff? How'd you handle it?

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, we, when we first made our first loan, we did secure money enough to buy new equipment.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So I knew I needed some mixes and stuff like that. So we did have some, money. So when I first started my business and money started coming in, I would buy at that time, I didn't think how big I was going to be. Yeah. I always planned it to be like a little mom and pop place. Maybe five or six employees and do 50 desserts of one kind and 50 desserts of another kind type of thing. So my first goal was to buy tart shells. So I'll find like a nice tart shell that I would buy, and I would buy 50 of them thinking that would be enough. I would buy other molds and stuff like that. Thinking all of that would be enough And this was all before I really went into my first season of business. And when I first started my pastry shop, I did everything. I did everything from bread to breakfast pastries to, I mean, anything I could do - the whole nine yards - everything was made. And one of my friends here in town, he said to me that I was crazy. There was no way I could keep up. With all of that. And I said, oh, no worry, because

David Hill:

I'm gonna guess he was right.

Paw Mikkelsen:

He was right. Because in my mind I was only going to do 50 type of thing of, everything. But I didn't realize I was going to have like 10 or 12 country clubs. Ordering at the same time. And order pastries for 150, 200 people and that stuff. And that kind of took me by a surprise.

David Hill:

But, but I think what I'm hearing is instead of taking the profits or whatever money you made, you put it back into the business. Always pretty much from the beginning.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Correct, we have always done that from the beginning.

David Hill:

I think a lot of people make mistakes on that. If they're like first time restauranteurs trying to do like, "Hey, I'm gonna be like a big restaurant and open a bunch of locations." They spend all their money and they don't realize we're very seasonal down here.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah, very seasonal,

David Hill:

You better save your money for the summer.

Paw Mikkelsen:

We, knew that from the beginning because my wife, my wife was part of the opening team at the Ritz Carlton in Naples, in the mid eighties. So a lot of the friends that she had worked with there have since then left the Ritz Carlton and they've either become executive chefs for country clubs or food and directors or GMs. So we had a pretty good network starting our business in Naples. But as I started in August, and that was another suggestion that was told to me that I should start a business August, September, be ready to be up and running. And that way you will hit the season right away. You have the first month, or month and a half to work out some of your mistakes or figure out what you need. But then by Thanksgiving, the businesses up and running. Season is here. And in season, this is like a light switch that goes on. And once it's on the light switch disappears. And there's no way of turning the lights off.

David Hill:

Right, right.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Before the end of May. So, every year, you know, it was like that, but every year we grew. So, I mean, my first year of business, I probably grew more than a hundred percent.

David Hill:

Was, was there any consideration about, Hey, we're going into summertime where it's slow, why don't we shut down two, three months? And like, would that have been worth it or always stay open was always the key.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, I felt that I target the market of the service industry, such as country clubs, hotels, and stuff like that. And they don't shut down, so I felt that I couldn't shut down either.

David Hill:

So is it always worth it to just keep going?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. I mean, I think the first seven years of being in business, I mean, we, we didn't take any days off. We didn't take any vacations or anything like that. Then after, I think after six or seven years, then we start closing on Sundays and that's been a closing day ever since. And as my staff grew and we became stronger and a better team, summertime was always slower. I always hated the summertime because we were always upside down. Yeah. Because of our bills.I mean, your bills, they don't go away in the summertime.

David Hill:

Right.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And once you have a payroll that doesn't go away, it goes back a little bit.

David Hill:

Well, that's what I was gonna say. Another challenge you probably suffer from is you got so many staff, you can't really lay 'em all off in the summer. You've got an obligation to give them some kind of pay, and keep them busy.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I only hire full-time people and I keep them as full-time people.

David Hill:

Wow. That's good for you. That's what I'm saying. I respect what you're doing over there.

Paw Mikkelsen:

We work it out. And, it seems like throughout the years it's been like a circle, you know. It always comes back. And even with the roughest summer times, you know, when the season started right back up again, we were back on top again within a few months. So it's never really been an issue. And, I mean, I live a pretty comfortable life, so I don't know it's for too much, but the business is running and we still put money into the business.But once I moved out, I always knew I wanted to own my own building.

David Hill:

Right. Which you do now.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Which I do now.

David Hill:

So tell me about the growing, going into that building. What complaints or issues did you have going into the bigger building?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, the, the issue that I had with my first building was the power.

David Hill:

Yeah.

Paw Mikkelsen:

For equipment. It was an older building. So I think it only had about 220 Watts coming in. So you're blowing fuses all the, the time. Cause once you have ovens going, stoves going, coolers, you have an AC. Sometimes you have those problems, all that often, you know, you will just be popping, breakers and stuff right away. But luckily next to me, there was a German bakery who had put in plenty of power. So he had his own power panel, but he had left his old panel empty. So I was able to hook up to that one and take his 220. So then I got 440 Watts which helped me for a little while, but it was still the way that my business grew. It was still not enough. And, pretty soon I outgrew the place that I was in.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So I knew that the bakery next to me was in trouble and was going to close down. There were three businesses in there, they were not doing too well. So I contacted the landlord because I wanted to take over the whole building. And, change things around my way. So, he didn't want tosell to me.

David Hill:

So does that mean you lease?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I rented at that time. But, then I started contacting other people. I looked for some other real estate and it took about a good six, eight months. Then I talked to a guy that used to have ice magic.

David Hill:

Oh yeah. Yeah. I remember that company.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And he had an idea in the neighborhood that I'm in now that there was a developer. I was going to build the building that I'm in now, it was not even built or anything like that, but he wanted to make that into a wedding venue. So his vision was to have a cake maker, a florist rental place, a chef place, ice place. And then we were going to use the whole upstairs,, like a ballroom function room type of thing. Everything could be done in house and stuff like that. So I was glad I wanted to be part of that. So I talked to the developer and I said I needed two units. It's a total of six units. So I probably took a little bit more space at that time than I really needed.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I took two units and then I was waiting for David and other people to take the other units, which then never took place because David was not able to sell his buildings to put the finances into new opportunities. So it kind of just fell flat.. But I still had my commitment. Which I was very happy about. It was very good to be part of something from the ground up because I, I was able to put in three phase power once the roof line was up and all of that stuff, I could go out and with all the equipment that I had, I could draw out on the floor where everything was going to go. And with the connections that we have built up in Naples and you also been working for country clubs that they go through renovations every so many years.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So, over the first few years of my business, I was able to buy walk-in coolers, big equipment from country clubs that were doing renovations. So, get it a discount of price. Or even sometimes at a trade type of thing, because I knew my biggest worry being in my first location was I only had one oven, I only had one mixer. I only had one cooler. I only had one freezer and I was always afraid that if anything broke down that the chain will break and I couldn't service the people that I have made a commitment make pastries. So my next goal was to get into a location where I could have two or three of everything.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And if anything breaks, you got a backup, it wouldn't ruin anything. Or slow us down. To still continue whatever production we have to make. So that was kind of how I grew the business. I mean, I have also been very lucky and blessed, because there was, when I first started my shop here, there was up in Fort Myers, there was Andre's bakery. I don't know if you remember him. He was probably the one who had most of Fort Myers and Naples, all the country clubs for bread and pastries. He had a pastry chef working for him, Todd Johnson - also a Ritz Carlton, pastry chef. So, you know, they had most of the market. And that was fine. I mean I had my connections for the space that I had. I mean, I had enough business for what I was doing,.But then Andre wanted to retire and sell his business. And then the new owners didn't include Todd Johnson as being part of, their transaction. So, he knew that his job was done. So he actually called all his friends and customers. I was friends with Todd, and I promised him I would not go after his people, and he wouldn't touch my customers. Or anything like that. But then he called me up and says, "Paw, do you want to grow your business? I'm moving to The Bahamas."

David Hill:

Whoa. So you got lucky with that little score.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. So I said, sure. You know, so I pretty much picked up all of Andre's country clubs for doing pastries,

David Hill:

But when something like that lands on your lap, isn't there a little bit of like, "Oh boy, can I handle all this?" Isn't it kind of scary? Does it worry you at all? , I think I'd be a little worried.

Paw Mikkelsen:

The only thing I'm worried about is how much my staff can do. Because as long as you have the people and you have the people with the right work ethic, you can do a lot. And, I only take on as much business as my staff can handle.

David Hill:

Yeah.

Paw Mikkelsen:

You know, because if lose two or three of my staff members or in those days, you know, there was a bigger percentage with if two or three people will walk out or anything like that. So, it's a little bit more scary back then, but now when I have 35 employees, there's always extra hands who can help you out. But no, we took it as it came and we were right. It was right when I had moved into my first business, or my second business and we increased the space and all of that stuff. So it was, it was all good. And at that time I did have a friend of mine who was a pastry chef. He was with me.

David Hill:

Well, it sounds like it was a pretty smooth run.

Paw Mikkelsen:

It was a pretty smooth run.

David Hill:

But what about like right now, when you kind of look from year to year, are you like a big person that looks at analytics? From year to year, because that's what I was gonna assume that you kind of feel so steady. There's really no reason to compare year to year. Do you really do that?

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, I don't. No, no. I mean, the only thing that I use analytics for is when we go into holidays and I have to pre prep.

David Hill:

Oh yeah, yeah. You gotta kind look at last numbers.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So for holidays, I have to start a few weeks out and that's even before that, the orders start coming in. So I look at last year's numbers, what we did and what was the high production items. And that's when I will start producing those items. And then I'll wait for the orders to come in.

David Hill:

Gotcha.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So that's the only time.

David Hill:

And then with the operation right now, how much would you say you're actually in there doing the actual hands on producing or do you kind of step away where you're more of a boss manager? Where you're actually dealing with the flour and butter?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Not too much anymore. I really don't want to. Mean, I think my staff can handle it as long as they can handle it. I mean, if they want me to, I can step in anywhere and do the job.

David Hill:

When did that change? What year did you start stepping out?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Probably like a few years ago.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. But other than that, I was hands on all along. Yeah. I did the production but I think it got, I mean... I still work

David Hill:

Obviously,

Paw Mikkelsen:

Because once, once you do the amount of business that we do, I take care of... I do all the ordering of food.

David Hill:

Yeah. Yeah. You're kind of managing,

Paw Mikkelsen:

I make the schedule. And then with having the delivery service from Fort Myers to Marco island and all of that stuff, I've got to make sure that whenever we go to Fort Myers that I have all the tickets ready. So everybody needs to get, you know, three or four tickets in the morning. And then I can send my first driver out. You know, and then we start doing the other way up because a lot of times when I do my deliveries, I try to go to Marco Island first or Fort Myers first and then work my way into Naples and then Naples will be done last.

David Hill:

Well, speaking of work, I was always curious to ask you, this might sound like a strange question, but I have to know what kind of hours do you keep? And what I mean, let me guess at this first,.I'm gonna guess you probably go to bed around 8, 8:30 at night and you're up maybe around 5:30 in the morning.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. I wake up at five, but I don't go to work.

David Hill:

See, I was pretty close. Yeah.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I wake up around 5:30, 6 o'clock but I mean, I think this year, I guess it started pretty much after COVID type of thing. COVID changed a lot of things.

David Hill:

Absolutely.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So now, I don't start my business. I mean, I don't open the door at the shop before seven o'clock in the morning.

David Hill:

Yeah. But what time do you arrive there? Usually

Paw Mikkelsen:

I arrive at seven.

David Hill:

Oh. But I've called a lot of times, and you're there at 6...

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, when I'm busy, I'm a little bit... now we are not that busy. So now it's seven o'clock when in season I might be there around 6:30.

David Hill:

I'll tell you a true story. I called one time. I think it was like midnight the day before I knew he wasn't gonna answer, I'm just leaving a message on his, on his machine about tomorrow's delivery. He answers the phone! And I'm like, "What are you doing, chef it's midnight!"

Paw Mikkelsen:

It was up to a holiday.

David Hill:

Probably. I think it was around Christmas. Yeah. Mostly I was like, what the heck kind of hours is this guy living? Yeah. But, okay. So, if you're gonna be busy and you're gonna be working and showing up at six or whatever...What time do you normally go to bed these days or whatever? When you're busy.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I go to bed around 10 or 11.

David Hill:

See, I assumed really early. Most bakers go to bed early.

Paw Mikkelsen:

The shop is set up that we do all the prep for next day. So we come in in the morning and then we finish everything up. So everything is already done. So it's not like we have to start early and have to, scoop the muffins and make all of that stuff is already done. So when we come in in the morning, I'll take out the croissants and the dailies. I'm gonna put them in the fruit box and, and bake that off. And the way that I have worked with my customers is that none of them want breakfast pastries at six, seven in the morning, the way that we do it for them is they'll get it afternoon delivery for next morning, so I never had to be in early or anything like that, but I have done some long workdays and my staff has always been with me. I have a very good staff. So as I said, for holidays, you know, in the beginning of the business could be 20 hour workdays. You know, but now I'm getting older. I can't do that anymore. So I think our schedule has definitely changed and I have increased the staff so much that we don't have to work those hours anymore. So now a good work day is most of the time in season is 14 hours.

David Hill:

Damn. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I pull days like that. But like, let me ask you, like with your position and what you're doing, when was actually the last time you had to fire somebody and what'd they do wrong to get fired?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I've never fired anybody.

David Hill:

Get outta here. You're lying. No, somebody who just keeps coming in late doesn't show. You've never had those issues?

Paw Mikkelsen:

You know, you have your way with it.

David Hill:

You're a pushover is what I'm hearing.

Paw Mikkelsen:

No. I mean, you would change the schedule.

David Hill:

Make that guy show up at noon?

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, you gotta change the schedule to play to times that they can't work and you cut the hours. So they eventually quit.

David Hill:

Okay. Oh, you do a reverse thing thing

Paw Mikkelsen:

You turn it around on them.

David Hill:

And I thought you were trying to make it convenient where you make this guy get up at 11. Now he can't get up early. What about when have you been in like a situation where you really had to scold an employee for ruining, let's say, a hundred pastries for something that's about to go out in a few hours. How many times do you really have to crack the whip on somebody ruining stuff?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, there are different ways of... I learned the lesson years ago, because when I first came to the States, that was in '87... a lot of the hotel business, they were used to the old French chefs,

David Hill:

Throwing pot and pans?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. Yelling and screaming and all of that stuff. And within the Ritz Carlton company in, in those days, they had a new philosophy. And the new philosophy was kind of, as a manager, you have to listen to your employees, they're the one doing the job. So, it's better to pay attention to see what they need, what went wrong, you know, and listen to them. And, I think that was always a good learning experience - to take care of your employees, and find out what they need. And if, in my business, because I'm there all the time, a lot of those mistakes don't really happen that often.

David Hill:

But when it does, do you freak out? How do you handle it?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, we get it done. Uh, I think a lot of times, if something happens it either we lose an order.

David Hill:

Do you remember when I ordered about two cheesecakes and you didn't get 'them right, both times? Do you remember that?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I think so. Yeah. Yeah.

David Hill:

They both... you're like, I show up, I'm like, "Chef where's where's my cheesecake?" You're like, "It collapsed." I'm like, "Okay. So what are we gonna do? You're gonna send me back there and say, sorry guys. No cheesecake tonight."

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, no we figured it out.

David Hill:

Remember that?

Paw Mikkelsen:

We figured it out though, right?

David Hill:

Yeah, We did. It took a little work, couple visits. Yeah.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. No, but, I don't really scold my employees. I have a rule that, you know, everybody's allowed to make a mistake once.

David Hill:

Yeah.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Then we go over, we talk about it, what they did wrong.

David Hill:

But do you, do you have a clutch employee that, you know, this is an important job. I gotta give it to this person.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Uh, we do. I mean, we do have

David Hill:

Some higher level that, you know, things will get done right.

Paw Mikkelsen:

But as I said, with the level that I'm on now and the employees that I have every time I need a new employee, I always put the word out to my employees. If we need a new guy or a new person. And they, they find somebody and they train them too. So, you know, I pretty well just step back and I'll make sure they have what they need, but I've really never scolded. I mean, I do get mad sometimes. If, of course, when I think for me, what hurts the most, if something is lost, it's the money. Because, you know, in the food industry, I mean, the margin of making a profit is very little.

David Hill:

And COVID even made it more difficult.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Yeah. So, if something gets burned in the oven or whatever, becomes a product that is not fixable ...Then I look at it. It's a lost product, but it's not only the product, it's the rework, it's the labor going into it. And all, it just starts a whole domino effect. So you cannot just look at it as oh, one recipe cost me $50. That's not the cost of what you just lost. I mean, you lost, you know, few hours of work. And plus you have to make another recipe and all of that stuff.

David Hill:

All right, chef, I just wanted to get into one big elephant in the room. Let's talk about COVID. If I can recall. I think it was about, 2020, right around March when it hit me. What happened was I started getting an influx of calls, everybody canceling. There were lots of trips that were in the books. A lot of people that were coming down, they were gonna, you know, have all these big events, maybe weddings and things.

Paw Mikkelsen:

It happened on St. Patrick's day, 2020 cancelled.

David Hill:

Yep. Yep.

David Hill:

Yep. Yep. So tell me a little about, about how you dealt with that immediately. Like what changed? Just same as me, probably everybody canceling all the events.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Correct. Well, everything got canceled, but I think all the people that I was customers with had already put in the order and they were kind enough to say we'll take it because I think they knew something else was going to happen. And they were right. That, you know, they had to do to go orders and stuff like that. So most of the stuff that they purchased from me could be used for the to go orders in the beginning. But, I mean, it was a scary thing.

David Hill:

Did employees not wanna work during that period?

Paw Mikkelsen:

No. No. They, I mean most my employees are all people who need to work.

David Hill:

Okay.

Paw Mikkelsen:

That was the toughest thing because I was having... My wife and I was having argument because I said, let's shut it down. I said, I'm done, we'll shut it down

David Hill:

Just for a temporary. See what happens?

Paw Mikkelsen:

I will shut it down until the summer, you know, because I knew it was going to last, a few months.

David Hill:

And then, her argument is we can't let those people not have work.

Paw Mikkelsen:

We can't do that to our employees. Our employees have been with us for so long and we owe them.That we keep on fighting.

David Hill:

Yeah, no, that's a good point.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So we did. We luckily.... A lot of the people that I have working for me, some of the people who work in the retail shop, some of the people who, are my drivers, some of my office girls, I mean, they were the first ones coming to us and saying, "Listen, your staff needs to work. We don't need to work. We'll stay home. Don't worry about us. We'll be fine. "So off the bat, I, I lost a good percentage of my payroll.

David Hill:

Gotcha.

Paw Mikkelsen:

That, that helped me. Then I started calling country clubs, chefs, hoping I could be part of the, to go business. And see how I could work my way in to the new business of trying to survive to go. And in some cases we were very lucky and got part of it. There was one particular chef in town, Serge. He's now out at Haritance Bay at that time. He was at Park .But he said right away, I'm going to give my business to the small guy. I don't need to be buying from Cisco. I don't need to be buying from Chaney or anything like that. Mikkelsen's is going to get all my business.

Paw Mikkelsen:

So he gave me all his business. So I did have a few clubs. And luckily I, I had retirement homes, that I do business with. So, that business kept going. But then, everything kind of just fell in place. Let's say for instance, Cisco, they had a lot of products that they needed to push out. So in the beginning of COVID, they did what they called a penny sale. Because it would cost money to throw everything out, but you're talking about fresh squeezed orange juice, fresh squeezed lemon juice, mashed potatoes, lettuce, celery. There was a whole bunch of stuff that you could buy for a penny, a case. So my salesperson for Cisco at that time was Jennifer. And she came to me and said, "Paw, this is good deal for you. It doesn't cost you anything." And the whole idea was I bought everything I could, and I would take care of my employees. You know, and it only cost me pennies. So I bought mashed potatoes. And every day, we packed our food boxes, whatever they needed. I already have eggs at the shop, but my employees were able to take food boxes home for the family. As long as I had that product And then after that,, we had bacon, we had eggs. I could take care of some items for them, but in the beginning, we did try to take care of our employees as well as we could, because of the less hours they worked. You know, of course. I couldn't give them full-time jobs. I could give them work. We, started cleaning up and all of that stuff. Churches, started to do to go boxes too. So I donated most of my product in my freezer to churches. To use for to go boxes. And, and then slowly as people... Luckily we are in Florida.

David Hill:

Yeah. Because, we were allowed to stay open.

Paw Mikkelsen:

We were allowed to stay open. Yeah.

David Hill:

So we were, we're fortunate.

Paw Mikkelsen:

We were very fortunate to be here in this state for sure. So as time went on, my wife came up with an idea of creating a farmer's market. So we contacted farmer Mike in Bonita to see if they wanted to be part of this. And that was right when they started the PPP. So we started a PPP farmers' market. There was pastries produce pizza, anything with a P. You know, people would come out. that type of thing. So we started the farmer's market every Wednesday. In our parking lot.

David Hill:

That's creative.

Paw Mikkelsen:

And that brought a lot of customers in.

David Hill:

But did, during that period, did you ever have a scary time where employees started showing up with Covid and spreading it within the workplace? Did you have anything like that happen?

Paw Mikkelsen:

It happened one time. I mean, as I said it now COVID happened in March. Yeah, with St. Patty day. So, the season was almost away anyway. It had gone through the season and luckily, that season was coming to an end, but then in the summertime, you know, nobody could travel anymore. And most of the time in the summertime I'd travel overseas or do something different. So instead of traveling overseas, we traveled in the states, but then there was one time we were on vacation. And I think I had two people that got it. Got COVID.

David Hill:

So did they stop going to work?

Paw Mikkelsen:

Well, we shut down the pastry shop.

David Hill:

Oh, okay. That's how you handled it.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Okay. I was out of town and I...

David Hill:

I guess that's a smart decision because they're around other employees. Correct. And then you don't know,

Paw Mikkelsen:

We didn't know. They were freaking out and all of that stuff. So, so we decided to shut it down. So I told the people, you know, finish up whatever we had pre-ordered. There was a few people who felt comfortable doing that. So we just filled our orders, and then we shut down the pastry shop for, two weeks.The retail shop is I had people to go get checked. Whoever was negative, could come back and take care of my wholesale business. And that was, so I came back from vacation and we did wholesale for a while, but also while I was closed down, I had a company come in and sanitize and do everything.

David Hill:

Oh, that's good move too.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I bought the UV lights and all of that stuff.

David Hill:

I remember you had the rubber glove and sanitizer sale,

Paw Mikkelsen:

But that was another thing because during COVID, you had all the people that couldn't find toilet paper.

David Hill:

Oh yeah,

Paw Mikkelsen:

And, and I could buy it by the case.

David Hill:

Oh, I know. Yeah.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Why not put it in the shop? And, that was what we did, you know,

David Hill:

So see for my thing was, it was similar to you where everybody's canceling, but then the locals that knew me, that I've worked for pretty regularly. They're like, "Hey, if you don't have a fever and you could still smell and taste, come on over here and be our chef." Cause you know, some of these people they're not gonna eat, you know, to go box food. They're just not gonna. If they can have me come out, they're gonna pick me over to go food. So luckily for me, you know, you follow me on social media, so you could see this COVID thing pushed me into a whole other level. Where I could work almost every single day.

Paw Mikkelsen:

That was another thing I wanted to get into is, you know, our retail job people who couldn't go to the country club anymore, they would find and come to my shop. So since COVID our retail shop has increased tremendously.

David Hill:

So let me ask you this. Like, if you weren't doing what you're doing now, what would've been something maybe, did you regret taking another role in life or you're extremely happy with your role of what you did? Is there something like, if wasn't doing this, I'd rather be doing this. Do you have another interest that maybe you sometimes think about?

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, not really. As far as career, I think that pastry field, and as I said, it's always been my hobby. But as I said, now I'm getting older. Of course now I'm thinking of, you know, I cannot keep up this pace anymore because I think I want to work less.

David Hill:

That was gonna be my next question. What is a future goal going forward? Do you have goals with your... Because I'm thinking you're just gonna make a few million selling your business and ride off into the sunset.

Paw Mikkelsen:

No, I wanna work less and stuff like that. So, I mean I have to cut back business and all of that stuff. And things that I never really have concentrated on here in Naples, which I have an opportunity now is maybe to do more retail. Then as I said, with all the changes that happened in COVID with everything that's going on right now with, with, with finding the right products and all of that stuff, I think it might be a wiser move to go into retail where I can put out whatever I want. Instead of having some customer dictate to me what they want. And then me having to look to find that product and all of that stuff. So I think, I mean, we do have more headaches now finding products, packaging materials, and all of that stuff.

David Hill:

But let me ask you this, are you open to, like, let's say a young, hot shot, maybe he's about 28 years old and says, "Chef, I wanna buy your business."

Paw Mikkelsen:

Bring him by.

David Hill:

Really? Yeah. So that's where you're at right now. Somebody had wanted to buy the business.

Paw Mikkelsen:

That's that's kind of my thought, because I think anybody... if you're taking like a young kid like that, if they come in and see our operation in season, they'll get scared away.

David Hill:

It's a lot.

Paw Mikkelsen:

They'll get scared away. So, my goal is actually to cut back to a point where a young kid can come in and

David Hill:

Because that's what it's gonna take

Paw Mikkelsen:

Can come in and see, "Oh, he's just doing retail and a little bit of wholesale. And I can do that. And then it's up to that kid to build up the business the way he wants.

David Hill:

Exactly. See if, if I was that person that wanted to take over your business, I would highly advise, just go in work under the chef for about a month, during a busy season, just one month, see what it's all about and decide if this is really what you wanna do. And this is the business you wanna buy because for this restaurant stuff, it's for young people. And it's like, you know, you gotta have a lot of energy. You gotta take care of your health. I mean, that was probably one of the biggest things I learned during COVID is like, your health is number one. If you're not a healthy person and you don't have your health, then where are you? What are you gonna do? So it's like you know, so anybody who's thinking about buying this kind of business that he has, I mean, it's gonna take a lot of energy and a lot of willpower and, you gotta have that. No quit in you. So, well, chef, I don't wanna take any more of your time. I mean, I know you have a busy business to run and I appreciate your time and thanks for coming out. My client here was so, great for letting us use his residence here to film and I think everything turned out great.

Paw Mikkelsen:

I do. Yeah, no, I enjoyed it.

David Hill:

I really appreciate it.

Paw Mikkelsen:

Thanks for having me today.

David Hill:

All right. You have a good night.